Explaining Kierkegaard to My Calvinist Friend Whilst Drinking Beer in 1996

My side of the conversation:

eetz sweell mon
Back in the emerald city
ha — arteest at werk
art — i saw this on a stamp today — “is whatever you can get away with”
but the fellow downtown apparently didn’t get away with whatever it was
poor sod
do you have your ale? in hand?
I have double black stout, finally got around to it, plus some Grant’s Celtic (low-cal, right)
lol (laughing out loud)
she needs to get online
she can have the amiga when your done
but she’ll have PC envy
oh, i found these pretzels wh rival Capone’s when Capones had pretzels (th good ole days)
yep, frozen, just pop one in the zapper
I forget, something like two dozen I think (costco quantity)
yes, Port Arthur Hot Chinese Mustard, but it isn’t that potent, i’ll have to seek out something stronger
mmm … sounds glorious
so it comes in powder form?
okay, i’ll look for it — so, PCs …
lolligagging. hoohaw.
So, when will the deed be done, the check be signed?
from? I don’t know much about em except that I looked in the window one saturday when I wanted an ethernet terminator and cdnt find one.
uh huh.
yea! woo woo, bravo, good enuf, (whistles), Wind95 rules, snd card? 6x CDROM. cybersex and whistles and belles.
16-bit? yeah. I think that’s fairly standard, so it probly is.
But it’s 2MB, right? That’s more than standard, wh is usually one, wh means you shd have good video speed. for intensive graphics and such.
64 the year you wer born
Aged to perfection, perfect deriliction.
But not extinction.
Death is the best dancing partner.
please go on
i knew it was, because she loves you
but lets not get into THAT
uhhuh. Paintshop Pro you can download and try out for thirty days (or longer). Yeah. That’s the cat’s meow of graphics programs (I’m guessing). They have a myriad of different versions depending on how much you want to shell out.
you shd since yr into graphics
very servicable. Then, there are Internet related programs, all the best of wh you can download as share or free ware.
yes 2.02 (who knows what the 02 is) Possibly, although that’s in Beta (testing) still I think. It incorporates 3D and stuff. I haven’t looked into it yet, since I’m still tweaking win95 and struggling w a mere 500MB hard drive.
Yes, you have to make some hard choices. Delete old programs w abandon.
Well, 2 GB shd give you some breathing room.
maybe that’s what the .02 signifies (Netscape wise — like a drug addict needs his fix like 02)
yeah … that wd help if you cd see as you create
Tight, but it is starting to feel like home, you know you look at the walls and the painted-over trim and windows and you love it because it is home. Strange but true.
And last night I was lying on my back on the full extent of my floor space and it seemed, looking up at my ceiling, that I had incredible amounts of space, more than enough.
That’s News to me. they havent bothered to call me.
Yeah, not even for library work, but rather a technology specialist for the Humanities depts. wh cd be kinda cool.
s’just information. I’m beyond or something getting hopes up at this point. But pleasantly so.
Not that I’m w/out hope, not at all.
I’ve been thinking about applying for a job at the psychic online network.
Well, that cd be a real ministry (grinning sheepishly)
w/gloves and protective headgear?
Sounds healthy, in a perverse (post?)Xian way.
It was okay. I did what I meant to do, wh was to just hang w my mom and be cheerful and outwardly focused. But now, I’m back in my own situation. It was nice to have an excuse to forget about myself for awhile actually. And I think my mom appreciated it and that it actually even helped her get a little more of a foothold on whatever it is that’s getting her down.
well, the timing worked out. i needed just as much as she needed, so maybe the good lord’s was doing one of his switcharoo things, crafty fellow.
You just grope along w faith, hope and love and that’s the best you can do in this life
grope and pray
hey, everyone always gets on Calvin’s case for “double-predestination” right?
Do you care to comment, but before you do, I was looking at what Aquinas wrote on the subject in the Summa and he is pretty much saying the same, although he modifies it by saying the damned are still responsible, just as you I think said or paraphrased Calvin as saying, but (to ramble on a bit more) another friend of mine (errant calvinist) said that it’s not really scriptural, God may harden hearts (like Pharaoh’s) but it never literally says God hardens hearts unto damnation or sumsuch. end of ramble
But god made nature scuse me
ah ha
very good go on
Good. Now, wd Calvin agree (you don’t have to pretend to be Calvin’s PR guy or anyting) with the sort of thing that’s often bandied about (e.g. by C.s Lewis) viz that since Christ died for all, grace is extended to all, and it is only by a refusal of the will (of the individual) that damnation occurs? I’m guessing the answer is no.
Yeah, insofar as anything does when you get into this area of discussion … I think you’re right that it is not ours to worry over, and moreover that we can’t really figure it out completely from our vantage point.
… That’s good. And, I mean, I’m with you on the point of emphasizing God’s Sovereignty, I can go w that, but at the same time, I appreciate the other strand in Xian tradition wh might be called humanistic and wh emphasizes, under God, the sovereignty of each person — Every Man a King, again… by the way, I wanted to try to recapture those lyrics I was forgetting … may I?
Do you rmember my last attempt at singing on Talk?
re Huey Long.
Yes… Randy Newman okay here goes
The kingfish, kingfish …
I’m a cracker , you one too
gonna take good care of you
there are many frenchman in New Orleans
in New Orleans there are frenchmen everywhere
youre house cd burn down, youre baby cd drown
wdnt one a them frenchmen care …

that’s all
not enough beer
i’m just finishing 1 pint 6 fl oz bottle
may have to run to kitchen for a Celtic ale and another pretzel
Yeah, it’s not bad really, light but aromatic 99 calories
You may be thinking of Grant’s Scottish Ale, wh is very much like that?
Which? I think it’s pale. Definitely more on the pale side, although heavier than a lot of pales I’ve encountered.
Yes. I haven’t had it in awhile, but I remember liking it. It’s more biting than Guiness — you know how guiness has a sort of starkness about it? Not like that.
Bad boy. okay, i’m going to go “off keyboard momentarily”
go check on the Allympics
I stand corrected, the Celtic is rather darklooking
dark brn ale
It does have that same sort of grab-th-mouth taste, a sort of gluey taste not unlike the Scottish version
Does that mean, like, aftertaste?
Yes, but milder as befits a Celtic sensibility
7 or so, i like the celtic cross on the label, that pushes it over into the 7 zone, otherwise it might be a 6.5
And the judge from Ireland? Gives it a1.3
Right. w his mother’s dear mother’s milllk
We just are civil to each other, pleasant enough, wh is fine. She has some other guys on her trail, and I feel for em.
She is charming, tis true, she doesnot lack charm in her way, but these guys I have no doubt (as 99% of the guy populace) are far more ruthless than I in what they are pursuing and I think her Chinese ethics are impenetrable so they will be chagrinned.
oooh , well, yeah, but not for long. Her younger sister, from what she has told me, is pretty americanized.
As Luther was quoted to say, mankind is like a drunken peasant, you help him on one side of the horse and he falls off the other side.
That’s true.
In Kierkegaardian terms, Communism exists purely in the ethical sphere. American exists primarily in the esthetic sphere. But rising above both spheres (and drawing them in) is the religious, i.e. the sphere of faith.
yeah. also, just the basics of sensory nature, sensuality removed from morality, like paganism or like Don Juan.
Kierk spoke of “esthetic damnation” but he didn’t have much to say for stopping at the ethical either.
That was aesthetic damnation
i.e. living in the basement of your life, disregarding … well, like the passage in one of Paul’s letters where he says something like “they worship the Belly” — that’s aeshetic damnation.
SK saw his writings as a process of leading readers through the spheres (seductively) to be finally confronted with the possibility of faith — thus he referred to some of his books as “esthetic” –i.e. not really his fully formulated understanding, but the truth within that sphere. And appealing to a sort of lowest common denominator. But with a view of leading the unsuspecting reader on.
It’s true these terms take on their own life in his writings, but it grows on you. The meaning you probably hold is not abandoned but enfolded into it I think. He referred to himself as a “kind of poet” and highly valued the esthetic, but just didn’t want to stop there, at beauty and artifice and such.
Kurt Russell?
I forget.
I think he was like what you describe in a lot of ways. He had a very structured and playful (medieaval like) mind in contrast to the age in wh he lived — but he had a powerful consciousness of the failings of the age and so much of his stuff is reactionary to that.
Well, he reacted against Hegelianism, first, and his reaction much applies to the sort of scientism (worship of science and experts at the expense of the individual); secondly he reacted against the Danish church (LUtheran) wh he thought was a great compromise and a sham and only an approximation of Xianity and worst of all dishonest about it, presenting itself as Xianity — wh (not of course) but any form of Xianity wh conforms itself to the culture, wh is always a temptation, case in point being “mainline” xianity today.
I guess I mean theological liberalism, or the churches wh assimilate into the prevailing cultural trends instead of hanging tight to the gospel.
yeah, it seems like it.
Interesting question. … he died in the middle of his “attack” (pamphlets and such) on the church. It is more an attack than a proposal, but he certainly proposed things as well, I think it was prior to the attack. He wrote things like “Works of Love,” and “Training in Xianity” where he expressed what it means to *live* as a Xian — not really defending orthodoxy per se, although I think he was definitely orthodox, but his emphasis was on how it shd be lived. and in taking stabs at the bloated targets he saw before him.
I think so, although he also spoke of being a “corrective” and going further the other way, or rather being overly stern in his attack because that’s what was needed.
An abortionist of bad ideas?
right, so …
you want to be mr spot on too
in yr own way
yeah … I agree … there is something appealing about a crusade
True, … there’s a funny story about when he was a child, sitting at the dinner table
he raised his fork and said, “I am a fork and I will stick you”
I hate to break up this party, but I’m supposed to be picking up Henri
Too bad he doesnt exist online then he cd just join us here
I think we’d have to use IRC
yeah, that’d be a gas
at home, it’s his night off, so I agreed to go to the Mandarin Gate for old times sake
right, we have to make our police presence known again
Next mon. shd work for me methinks.
hoo aww
OK, I’ll try

Auf Wieder sehen

RM seining auf


  1. Rufus McCain says

    The other side of the conversation:

    ere I am RM
    Howz eet?

    are you in seatown or triland?

    moldy green city w/guys parking downtown w/ Bomb written on truck…

    My picasso that’s art..

    There are child porno “artists” who wd agree
    No, no, he’s in the pokie, yep
    So, PC talk, Haystack black in the “flesh”.
    Low calorie beer, I don’t think so.
    Yah, Ally is getting tired of my lols
    Here here,I like that idea–won’t be
    Ha Ha
    Costco, right?
    Are they already browned then?
    Cool, how many to a package?
    O course, do you have Hot mustard?,
    I have the solution for you–Colman’s dry mustard–just mix it w/ equal parts of ale, water, vinegar, whatever you have–it’ll burn your face off, but you can mellow it (if you must)–just look at spices in your grocer
    yep, in a bright yellow tin–it is really the best, recipes are on the tin
    Well, they suck, but I’m getting one, for real. Dad said “I’ll write a check”
    Freaked me out right.
    Vell, itz like dis…I’ll prob order it this week. From Alert–you hate them dont you?Pooter Peeping Tom eh
    So, I’ll get 16mb RAM, 2gb! hrd drive, 15″Svga .28 confirmed, 100 mghz (oh well can’t have it all), 28.8 ext modem. Windows 95 plus. and ….
    I think that’s it, no printer–just
    Ah yes, lemme see…just sec.Belles, uh huh.
    6 spin CD rom, nope sound card on main board, nuthin special.
    Sound card?
    I’ll have to check, is that good.
    Diamond Stealth video card, what the Hell is that?
    Ah, right…
    64 is what it say, and yes, 2mb, uh huh
    It must be good!!!
    Soon. Momento Mori.
    I still have to decide on but I like that theme…but, software…oh yes Ally says hi, and it is ok if you make me laugh, she is just
    Well, yah
    She is OH lympicing tonight
    Anyway (Argggh) Software: Word, yep. Some kind of Paint/Draw thing. Hmm. Dad said something about Corel Cor
    Dad(Plastic) Money, something it works…go for the best!
    Ok, I will, but I’m still looking really. And of course, Quicken for Ally to relieve her headaches w/ monthly bills
    Netscape Gold 2.0, what about 3.0?
    Really, I didn’t know…is it painful?
    I don’t think I’d like that. I’m a collector, ya know.
    Drown in 02 I think. (oxygen)
    Got it.

    Things be lookin up. I’m looking forward to seeing my homepage graphically, w/o having to go to work….
    So how’s the cell?
    I’ve always felt that way–let the outside look like whatever, but my “space” wd reflect ME.
    Just don’t get too used to it, B told me that U of Oregon called today to chk up on you.
    So you do have an app. in?
    Sounds like it–I don’t wanna get your hopes up, but that was at about 2 this afternoon…..

    That was my next question. Youre readin my mind online!
    You’d do well and could respond to the Inlander Astrology guy too…
    My dad and I have already sparred concerning….Calvin.
    But o course, It was refreshing– some dads hug their sons, we taunt eachother with Theology. Very nice.

    Yep we be dystheological.
    How’s your post view of the Triland vacation?
    your a good son RM, I’ve said it before, and you know inside you, but that was a good thing to do.
    Yes, PTL, he never lets us really know whas hapenin

    Calvin agrees.
    Oh yah.
    Nice ramble.
    Calvin says: Here Ye Here Ye…
    Man is depraved and Naturally damned to Hell. Election is God’s way of plucking his chosen ones *from* that natural state…. De
    I was talking of Man’s Newer nature, his fallen nature…
    So, double predestination is not really God choosing some to heaven and some to damnation. But saving some from the fate that awaits all of mankind, without God’s intervention. How’s that?
    I’m in deja vu mode (from yesterday, w dad). Limited Atonement, you kinda touched on… BTW, Calvin said almost verbatim my above, kinda.
    As far as the choice of all goes, Calvin is a def. No, because he believed that Christ’s work on the Cross only covers the Elect. I’m kinda uncommited– because I don’t really believe that it is a big point. After all only the Elect can come to God, and Christ’s sac. was sufficient for all that come, that he draws, etc. so … why worry whether or not his sacrifice covers all, but then some reject it… did that make any sense?

    yea, I would say saved/depraved mentality. Or something, we certainly don’t have the mental capacity of the 2 Adams (Adam and Christ). Who are the examples of human perfection in my mind and theology.

    Carry on wildly.
    I believe so Louisiana
    Tral na la
    You need to brush up on the high notes.. otherwise perfect
    I’m on bottle 2

    Have you had Celtic before?
    Was it in the Scottish style, if I remember, kind of thick in the mouth, gold
    I think so, so is this Black?
    The Celtic, Irish ale like
    Mr. Grant is certainly broad in scope. Have you had Imperial Stout–that’s supposed to be the biggest and baddest of the stouts, worldwide…

    Guiness was my adopted father for many years. Box my ears and spank my butt…

    I’ll grab a haystack…
    Now I think I might identify. Dark brown, alish or black, stoutish?
    Hm I’m just not sure if I’ve had that one…
    and Finish?
    Yah, the ch in Loch…
    Hm. Overall rating 1low-10 high
    Ale impics..
    Ya, he had Guinness in his bottle as a babe.
    Liebfraumilch. Ja

    So, any new haps w/ Chen, or is that a bad word?
    Oh, RM, that bad?
    Long live Mao in the hearts of the masses…
    To her chagrin.
    It is true, but Communism preserves(d) a certain kind of … ethical purity that America has long lost… not that the motivation is honorable, but the results certainly are…
    Hmmmm. I agree, I think, well, if aesthetic means material, commodity grubbing.
    But wait, I’m still drinking this last statement in….
    Splain Ethical damnation, I’m drowning.
    ya that
    O.k. I’m gettin a picture.
    Hmmm, SK seems too Barthian for me… I just can’t make the Leap of Faith to his twisting of terms….Aesthetics, of course, means somethin wholly else to me, and I just can’t toss my ale plagued mind in that contortion….
    Did you ever see , oh damn, that one show…the Thing (70’s or 8
    ya that’s the one! do you remember what the monster did?
    It incorporated whatever w/which it came into contact, making it a bigger and more mutated mass of ickiness. I kind of like things all seperate and autonomous, absolute, kind of medieval, I know, but I can identify with that type of stuff. Though, I must admit, SK has always intrigued me…
    But you were just gettin going…
    I’ve encountered Hegel’s Aesthetics–daunting to say the least. But what did you mean by mainline Xianity?

    Ah yes, and of course, I am in agreement, though I see Orthodoxy on an upswing right now, at least in Protestant circles–Catholic, Too?

    But was SK really trying to promote Orthodoxy, or simply flailing his arms against liberallism.
    So, by cutting away the fat, he at least left the meat…

    Hmmm, I’ve often thought of myself as and Exterminating Angel. Or maybe I’ve thought that I would like to be one.
    More like, how to put this, Well, you know the guys who waste doctors who perform abortions? Those guys seem to think that they really have it all “spot on” as Ally would say, and that God actually talked to Them.
    Now, don’t get me wrong…
    But they seem to have their own “real life” crusade going on and to tell the truth, the world could prob do w/ a few less abortion doctors.. ya know…
    SK seemed to agree w/ the appeal, but on a considerably less violent note..
    From the mouth of babes….
    Is that a possiblility?
    Well, I’m for it if he gets w/it someday….
    Where is he?
    Ah, Boyz on the town…..
    Got it , well that’s cool, shall we do next mon. or the one after?

    I may not have haystack, but I’ve a sixer of hard cider….
    See you then, then, stay out of the pokie o\k
    See ya…
    me D____
    Das ist gut
    Vielicht das nechster zeit..

  2. I'm afraid I don't know anything about Calvin or Kierkegaard and couldn't concentrate until the end. But I have recently developed an interest in beer and yesterday even bought a bottle to drink (I shared it) before I left work. Corona.


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